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Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans 125	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:07:00 - [1] - Quote Hello I have an issue regarding the price for faction weapons in the LP store. In brief the cost in tags for these weapons is too high. Tag generation rates have suffered from a series of patches and game design changes but the lp store tag costs haven't been adjusted to compensate. What we see now is these weapons are disproportionately expensive to other weapons of the same type. This is not an issue of drop rates: players can physically build these modules and that needs to be accounted for. I request a rebalance of their cost to increase availability as the end goal. Read my thread here for my thoughts on eve economy https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263968&find=unread --- Mining in game, from the perspective of an IRL miner. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3503687&#post3503687 ----á for FW rebalance in 2013
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans 127	Posted - 2013.10.28 23:19:00 - [2] - Quote Op updated with more info Read my thread here for my thoughts on eve economy https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263968&find=unread --- Mining in game, from the perspective of an IRL miner. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3503687&#post3503687 ----á for FW rebalance in 2013
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans 130	Posted - 2013.10.31 19:35:00 - [3] - Quote 6 days since I posted this thread without anyone raising an issue. Can this now be put forward to CCP? Click here for LP store weapon cost rebalancing
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans 150	Posted - 2013.12.21 14:42:00 - [4] - Quote Observed the new RHML launcher addition to cal navy LP store. It costs the same number of tags to produce 5 of these as it costs to produce a BPC for 5 run 200mm railgun That's a battleship weapon for as cheap as 200mm railguns (cruiser weapon). How does this make sense at all? Click here for LP store weapon cost rebalancing
Caleb Seremshur Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans 150	Posted - 2013.12.23 03:30:00 - [5] - Quote Cost should never be used as a balancing factor. What you pay for an item on the market is your decision alone. The point of contention here comes from the manufacturing cost from the LP store - taken against the raw stats performance of the item and finally the supply of materials from the source. As I detailed above - the supply of tags for these items used to be part of FW plexing, in addition to mission farming. Now though the issue is much harder since those FW tags have been removed and all that remains are FW missions and regular missions. The average player will not farm tags from FW missions surely because of the immense danger that being in low sec and running a mission alone represents but also because of the loss of potential LP gain and the delay in the rewards from that mission alone. Running missions like that in small fleets cuts in to everyones profits - it's a really badly designed system. High sec mission running will produce tags 'eventually' thanks to getting oodles of useless pirate tags first. I guess you could go to a border system from one high-sec to another and start farming the NPC police that come to kill you but that seems slow and inefficient. At least non-FW gankers will get concorded i guess. Thirdly and lastly are the raw performance for faction weapons over t1/t2/officer weapons. Not much to say here, grab the compare tool next time you're in game and take a look. It depends on what faction you're taking the weapon from and what kind of weapon you want. Faction weapons should definitely NOT have access to t2 ammo - the only reason to train t2 specialization is because of the t2 ammo. Faction weapons in my opinion are really our meta5 weapons while t2 are our meta 6 items. It would more accurately represent the kind of dedication to their training that when fully decked to level 5 specialization a t2 blaster outperforms a faction blaster. Once again though i leave those technical details to the balancing staff, my concern here is making the supply of faction weapons easier - such that they aren't 30 or 40 million for a small neutron fed navy because they don't have to be that costly as compensation for the effort of making them. Even pirate faction weapons which share identical stats are often significantly cheaper only because they're so much easier to acquire. LP store weapon cost rebalance
Caleb Seremshur Capital Storm. The Storm Collective 202	Posted - 2014.02.25 01:36:00 - [6] - Quote X Gallentius wrote: Malcanis wrote: This really is a good idea, because faction weapons should be a usable alternative to T2. They're not OP, I can't see how this would break anything, and it has several beneficial consequences. Before I try and escalate this, is there anything problematic that anyone can see with this? I've tried and I can't. The original BPO holders of T2 weapon systems will see their profits drop to only healthy levels. It is worth mentioning that faction weapon bpcs are another isk sink and require multiple sources of labour to create. If faction weapon build costs should face a rebalance then including data/relic site materials would be a good addition on top of mining and tags. LP store weapon cost rebalance
Caleb Seremshur Capital Storm. The Storm Collective 207	Posted - 2014.03.19 23:52:00 - [7] - Quote I see what you're saying but none of that is strictly true is it. If you plug in to pyfa a given fit and then copy it, modify it to have faction weapons and then directly compare when at all v skills the t2 ship will perform just as good if not slightly better. The advantage of faction weapons is their lower fittings. The rof and other stats are really high but not so high to be game breaking. Also I will lean back on my op and state again that the effort to build a faction weapon is quite considerable but that the market sells pirate weapons with identical stats for often much less. Just compare fn 200mm rail gun vs ss rail gun and notice the price difference. I can't really say much more than I already have so when I get home I'll build some ships in pyfa and transliterate their stats on to here. Can not do very much on my phone here. LP store weapon cost rebalance
Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 287	Posted - 2014.06.09 04:35:00 - [8] - Quote Ok so months later I've given some more time for things to work themselves out. http://s83.photobucket.com/user/MrBenis/media/Factionvsnon-factionfit_zpsdf5ec6eb.jpg.html The above is two identically fit cerbs, with one being modified to use mostly faction modules. Salient points are as follows. T2 fit cerb is 1% over PG. T2 cerb is 0.4% over cpu. DPS stats compare at 610 for the faction, 593 for the t2 cerb with CN kinetic HAM. A difference of 2.8% EHP is 20.8 faction, 19.5 t2. A difference of 6.35%. The faction cerb is 2.5% faster. T2 fit is 21m in mods. To make it use no fitting mods requires only changing to a meta 3 scram and plugging in a 2% pg implant. I personally swapped to a 3% grid implant because they're more common. Total fitting in this case is circa 19mil + the 3% implant. Combined cost is 214mil. Faction cerb is 436mil in mods. That is not a typo. For 20.7x the amount of money for a t2 fit you get 2.8% more dps, 6.35% more ehp and move less than 3% faster. You also don't need a grid implant. Lucky you. Notice that I deliberately left out crazy over-priced things like CN BCS and CN invuls because pithum invuls are better and cost nearly the same, CN BCS would net you 35 dps more. The extra 35 dps increases the difference to 8.1% dps. The difference in cpu would allow you to remove the overclocker thus giving you access to a t2 EM rig if you wish. At this point your fit is 912 mil at a cost of 755million in mods. Fits like that are ALOD specials but they shouldn't need to be. The combination of tags, LP and the effort required in farming them topped off with getting the right missions in the first place combine together to make some of the least cost efficient modules in the game. As stated earlier in the thread and throughout the forums in many places there are pirate faction drops with identical stats that are sometimes 1/4 the price of a FW store weapon. I think that this problem is severe and it impacts the game for everyone wishing to kit out their ships. It affects the game negatively because much like the just-passed pirate implant rebalance which saw HGs increased to +4 in order to make them a more desirable alternative to +5 clones insofar as encouraging active use over passive training clones I really think dropping the price on FW weapons and mods could see a couple of major benefits to the economy. It would see people using LP items with much greater frequency and as we know they're an ISK sink which will help everyone in the long term. It will see an incentive to run more FW missions to collect tags thus reducing the appeal of afk farming by a margin. It will give people who like to do things themselves the chance to build their own ship in a very true sense. T3 production is out of the question for many solo players but a FW ship powered by FW modules is certainly achieveable. I want people to remember that this is a game about risk vs reward and that in the case of FW items the risk of loss is far higher than the reward they bring. This is not some flash-in-pan theory, the market clearly supports it through the ludicrous pricing and FW item stores are sorely out of date by nearly 4 years. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 300	Posted - 2014.06.19 22:21:00 - [9] - Quote At sustained dps using faction ammo otherwise they're outperformed by speciialist ammos. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
Caleb Seremshur The Atomic Fallout Kids 311	Posted - 2014.06.26 13:55:00 - [10] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: Price of tags is dictated by players. It is like moon goo. Why r64 are so expensive, people should be selling it cheaper. Read the thread properly. I said tag sources have been nerfed while lp store costs are too high. Thanks for playing. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing

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